Men Who Love Burgers: But Aren't So Sure About Sex

Advertisement One:

A hunky guy stares at a sexy babe who appears before him— she seems to crave his attention. He sees  she would jump in the sack with him at the slightest encouragement!

Yet, in the corner of his eye, he sees a brand-name beer waiting for his pleasure at an adjacent table. The beer wins his complete desire and attention; the foxy lady doesn't stand a chance.

Advertisement Two:

A young man repeatedly chooses a big juicy taco over the invitation to score with willing and available girls.

Advertisement Three:

Another young man is being observed in a laboratory environment. He is offered the pick between a delicious cheeseburger and a gorgeous, sexually-available wench. Overcome with his good luck, the boy gasps, "You mean I get to chose between a girl and a burger?"  After a moment of suspense, he picks the girl.

One of the lab observers turns to the other, and remarks, "What an anomaly!— no one's ever done that before."

Welcome to the new breed of healthy young men who rate sex way beneath their other appetites. In this brave new world, girls are a pain, a disappointment, and rather dangerous to the soul. Self-preserving boys would rather be satisfied with a brew and bit of beef than an erotic tide of reckless passion.

Advertising agencies are capitalizing on our current generation's penchant for irony—  and yet there's a kernel of authentic confession in each of these promotions. There are lots of guys today who have sexually retreated, or soured on the mating game altogether, and you don't have to search out “Miller Time” or Taco Bell to find them.

Traditionally— say, since the dawn of sexual stereotypes— men have been the ones who were horny all the time, thinking with the little head instead of the big one; a heterosexual fool for Chantilly Lace and a pretty face.  It was women who were supposed to say "no," who  put the brakes on erotic interest in favor of their virtue or climb to success.

A woman who made an ass of herself over a sexual affair wasn't unheard of— but she learned her lesson quickly, with a quick “Rules Girl” kick in the pants to join the feminine ranks of the sexually-reserved and pseudo-chaste.

When feminists and sex researchers started talking about women's sexuality in the 1960s, it became clear that one reason women didn't feel connected to their sexual self interest was because so many of them had never had sexual satisfaction to begin with. Finally, many liberated women spoke up, admitting that they'd never had an orgasm, and didn't know where to begin.

Sex is the one area men are supposed to excel in, by default. Their penis is so obviously "there"; their masturbation practice practically demands itself. They get an added helping of testosterone, and the same amount of encouragement to be virile that girls get to be virgins.

So when we see men today, non-plussed with sexual companionship, is it because they too, are losing their orgasmic pleasure, or because they lack desire altogether?

Let me make a brief caveat that this is not the experience of the majority, but the fact that it even exists as a tiny trend is noteworthy, because it is such a departure from the past. Sure, there are still plenty of horny men who will bark like a dog to get laid, but the big news is that so many young men in particular, are as ambivalent about sex as any pre-orgasmic housewife ever was.

Some say that relief from their desire is a thing to envy.

These men say that (a) having erections is not automatic, (b) sexual pleasure can be elusive, and (c) having the drive to "score" is not their birthright. For some of them, coming out of the closet with their erotic alienation is a burden lifted from their balls.  That burger is looking damn good.

The sensational event that has made so many unsatisfied men visible is the unbelievable sales of the erectile dysfunction drug, Viagra. 

But what's so interesting about Viagra is the number of pills being popped for performance enhancement, not erectile dysfunction. Viagra in this case is used like a one-night insurance policy, a facsimile of a porn-star experience. These users aim for sexual performance the way they NEVER had it. These aren't men looking for dreams of youth, they're YOUTH who've discovered sex, in the prime of their lives, to be disappointing and even humiliating, because their penis didn’t “behave” the way they believe it’s supposed to, or because the pleasure it afforded them seemed less than the hype.

They aren't doing it for a thrill, they're using the drug to defend their reputations and their lovers' expectations. They know they're expected to produce wood, on contact, and that it won't be pretty if they can't. They fear their lover will feel scorned and unappreciated, and the backlash might get ugly. This anxiety is what promotes their use of Viagra, not their search for ecstatic sex. Not a very erotic or romantic picture, to say the least.

Why is sex problematic for men now, when such a "problem" was only women's in the past?

Sex research about men's erection dysfunction is woefully inadequate—and Pfizer, Viagra's manufacturer, isn't sharing their trade insights.

Instead, what we have is the gossip that has affected many American bedrooms. Ask a single woman who’s dating— and you're likely to get a story from her about how men aren't as sexually yearning, or as aggressive as they used to be. Are they shy, or is it something more? Chastity pledge blues or Paxil script? Ask the married woman who says she doesn't get it on with her husband at all without a dose of “V” in advance.  And as for the porn industry– well, don't even ask!

The most alarming possibility as to why cocks are sagging is that something poisonous is in our water— or our air, or our food— you take your pick. Anyone who watches the cancer epidemic we're living in, or who takes a look at dropping fertility rates, has had the distinct nightmare that the human race has ensured its own destruction by creating our own ecological putsch.

The silver lining is  the sensitivity argument, which would be a kind alternative: that men have had it with women's inane stereotypes about their bodies and minds. After all, men can be turned on without erections; they can achieve orgasm without a raging hard-on, and their emotions and minds are just as tied to their cock as any woman is to her clit.

Many men are exasperated with women thinking that boys can be satisfied with a warm hole and a squeeze.  These are the guys who appreciate their own sense of foreplay, they dream of being seduced, and they want to be treated like an individual between the sheets instead of a stroke-by-numbers cartoon.

I like this theory as a philosophy, and its feminist impulses. But physically, I don't think it explains our current predicament.

My chief indictment at present, the one we can prove, is Pharmaceutical Abuse. Many of America's favorite medicines depress the libido, and ironically, the most notorious ones are used to treat depression. Prozac, Zoloft, Paxil, and all the rest have made a lot of people feel "happy" at the expense of feeling horny.

Desire, along with sadness, anger, and other deep feelings, don't feel so pressing anymore with the new mood levelers. Men and women who got rid of their depression have told me that they miss their sex drive, but they find their new contentment to be enough compensation.

What saddens me is that a person would have to choose between their sexual passion and their will to live— we used to think of those emotions as being part of the same joie de vivre.

And what infuriates me is that young people are being treated with this crap as if their libidos were expendable.

Advertisement Number 4:

A group of buddies have gathered at one member's house to watch the big football game. They don't understand where their pal "Doug" is—he hasn't arrived yet, and they know him to be a true fan. Everyone one of these guys is in their 20s and 30s.

The story cuts to Doug, coming home with groceries and a bouquet of flowers in his arms. He busies himself about the house— making dinner, plumping pillows— to delight his wife, who steps in from work a few minutes later. She is utterly enchanted with him, and the music swells with their desire.  A voice-over breaks in to tell us how many men don't realize what erectile dysfunction is, or how common it is, and what can be done to treat it.

Meanwhile, back at the football party, we see the dudes shaking their heads and worrying about Doug's no-show. But now we realize, that this is not just a bunch of sports fans— they're a room of guys who haven't been laid in ages, and it’s their decision to refrain from the marriage bed, not their wives’.

Pfizer's name flashes on the screen, and the narrator encourages us to contact our physician and ask for details. The name "Viagra" is never mentioned.

I find the spectacle of men's declining sexual self-interest disturbing. I never would have guessed that this would be the threat I'd be confronting thirty years after the modern gender liberation movement began. I'm an advocate for men being sexually sensitive and discriminating, but what I see in the erotic arena is mostly men who feel disconnected from their bodies, from the "dating game," and who feel terribly pessimistic that anything is going to change. 

Like women who pine for an erotic revelation, they will often cherish romantic dreams of a "Princess Charming," a lover whose innocent gaze and mind-reading touch would deliver them from their despair and disconnection.

Until then, that bit of beef and brew are looking better all the time.

Reprinted from Libida, by Susie Bright. Burger Comic illustration.

Comments

[Anonymous]

>Susie wrote:
> Many of America's favorite medicines depress the
> libido, and ironically, the most notorious ones are
> used to treat depression. Prozac, Zoloft, Paxil,
> and all the rest have made a lot of people
> feel "happy" at the expense of feeling horny.

Well, not necessarily.

Depression, overwork, stress can all hammer your libido. Sure, anti-depressants can, too, but the medication isn't necessarily the problem.

I've had depression on and off for many years. Generally, when I've been depressed, I've been extremely disinterested in sex. Generally, Prozac made no difference in my libido, only in my ability to achieve orgasm.

For the last few years, my libido has been very high, regardless of whether or not I've been depressed or been on Prozac. (I'm a woman in my late 40s.)

A few years ago, Prozac was being prescribed to men who had premature ejaculation. I don't know if that's still happening or not.

While I think some of men's issues with sex/relationships may be related to pharmaceuticals, I think an awful lot of it has to do with the changing roles of men. Women tend to be more adaptable than men. Further, the changing roles of women have given them more freedom over the last 40 years or so. Ultimately, the changing roles of men can give THEM more freedom to, but many are highly ambivalent about it.

[Slatemeister]

One factor Ms. Bright may be overlooking is the change in the nature of free time. Now that all young people of both sexes have to work full-time jobs just to barely keep their heads above water (and sometimes even that doesn't cut it), there just isn't time or energy for sex anymore. Surviving on one's own is really hard these days, and supporting a family on a single income is completely out of the question, so all of the little things like shopping and cooking and cleaning have to be done after work. As a result, managing a household takes half of one's free time, so we get to choose between a sex life and a hobby, or settle for a half-assed version of both, which gets pretty annoying pretty quickly. This is, of course, assuming that you're one of those lucky few who doesn't feel the need to spend half an hour winding down after a long workday and an increasingly onerous commute. If not, then you get to pick between a half-assed sex life or a half-assed hobby, and that's it.

I'm not speaking out against the sexual revolution here; like just about everyone else these days, I think that gender-equality is a moral imperative. However, I'd imagine that it was easier to maintain a sex life when the chores didn't all have to get done after work, when there was someone around to hold down the fort. I think we're only going to see this problem get worse until we find and create a new model for the way we live.

I'm also not saying that there aren't other factors, or that the factors Ms. Bright hit on aren't legitimate -- it's a complex equation. Many chemical pollutants that end up in our water mimic estrogen, which probably isn't helping the situation. Also, the sexual revolution isn't really done; men have most of the same economic, social and sexual expectations of ourselves today that we had fifty years ago, even though we know that for most of us, meeting those expectations is simply not going to happen.

Even so, it makes you wonder. In the Bad Old Days of 100 years ago, when people were working 12-hour shifts 7 days a week, did they have this problem?

[C.S. Lewiston]

Y’know, beef cattle for the most part are doped up with so many growth hormones, you have to wonder what effect that would have on sexuality.

I find the dating scene foreboding and uninviting, but that’s mainly because I’m a rather shy, somewhat sensitive and moderately intelligent guy who’s not very good at the stupidass jockish social games we males are expected to play from junior high school on out. If an eligible woman to whom I felt attracted introduced herself to me (or vice-versa), that burger would be gettin’ mighty cold!

I wonder how much apparent lack of sexual desire, in both sexes, is really shyness or a more virulent variant thereupon? If getting yourself out there to meet with members of the appropriate sex feels more to you like a climb up a 1000-foot sheer rock face rather than the pleasant adventure it's supposed to be, then of course the urge to merge will feel more like an onerous burden than the divine gift it ought to be regarded as, and losing it will feel more like a blessing than the curse it is. I wonder what would be causing that shyness? Like I’ve said before, I don’t think “social phobia” is drug-company hype. I’ve seen it up close. I dare say that shyness and social phobia is where a lot of prime-time TV viewership comes from!

[Susie Bright]

The thing with depression drugs is that they inhibit libido in a significant number of individuals, but not all... see the Times article I linked to for the statistics. Right now they're thinking along the lines of 50%... BUT they have problems with self-reporting, naturally.

This goes back to our thinking about drugs/medicine/food... of course we dont' all react the same way. I'm all for curiousity and experimentation. My objection is to the blanketing of pharmaceutical answers to all of life's dilemmas... and particularly to dosing adolescents as if their sex drive is immaterial and even undesireable.

The Diastrous American Must Work All The Time Ethic... yes, I agree that it's damaging on many, many social levels of human interaction. Families, sex lives, friendships, partying... all these things have taken a wallop!

And, as for shyness and dating.... I think that's worthy of a whole story/train of thought in itself, although it's not quite what I'm talking about here. Lots of people struggle with being terribly shy, but they are still orgasmic, they masturbate, they get aroused when they get the opportunity. And conversely, there are extroverts who are avoiding sex because they feel unresponsive, or unlibidinous.

[Kit]

I suffer from a chronic pain condition which can theoretically be aided by antidepressants. I have found however that pretty much all types cause orgasmic or erectile dysfunction in me, and refuse to take them. Not only is the loss of my sex drive literally depressing to me, but I also find that sexual and orgasmic pleasure to be a far more potent benefit to my pain levels than any benefit the anti-depressants gave me (and I did give them a shot).

Even despite these clearly stated wishes, and under no suggestion that I am currently depressed, every time I visit my otherwise excellent doctor she insists on trying to put me on anti-depressants for my benefit and I have to refuse anew.

Thanks for an illuminating post, Susie, I just wanted to throw in my .02 with my own experience.

[me]

We must flirt with constant ease and without any expectations to infuse the everyday with the erotic. Using the eyes, the corner tips of mouths, a sideways turning backwards glance, a subtle slip of tongue and not so subtle smile. Then leave, just leave that moment lingering, a gift, without any grabby thoughts of action to spoil the baby's breath of romance. From here, the tides of imagination begin to flow and flee and flow. Teasing with just enough frustration, tickling hot pink fun. Life becomes a field of wild velvet tongue-tied poppies, not the drooling rote awaiting your graduation. Life becomes a game of erotic hopscotch, not corporate shoots and ladders.

Erotic every little thing!

Let's thrust our dull-bot pupa minds into the gutter and forcibly hold them squiggling there until every word, every breath, every everyday thought comes flitting flirting out to land now here, now there, a random deliberate kiss of pollen before the waggledance. Work like a drunken bumble drone. Let's smother the grumble-spirals between two wholesome fresh-baked buns and a whole mess of special sauce. If income is the only pay of our labor, we are approaching work from the wrong end. If life fritters down to the short end of work, I ask then, what life? So we're stuck in this fast food hive? Well show me the honey!

[Quentin Ergane]

I hear what some of the other people are talking about, but I am not het and things look... well... very similar in the gay world. I am starting to wonder if the reason why so many gay men do crystal meth is so no one knows that they are experiencing erectile dysfunction. (I'm sorry, and I know I am not the expert... but press something against my prostate and I will show you wood.)

I do think sexism has something to do with it. While feminism has freed women to have orgasms, it has not freed men from all those expectations -- gay males, too... and worse, regardless of what ways we identify with masculinity, we are socialized with all that social garbage (and for right now, for whatever reasons, I am still the horniest bastard alive... but still... having sex with other guys, even my partner, is so *awkward*. I don't remember it being so effing awkward when I was younger... it was all... very... wonderful and good. But I can understand the awkwardness because of rising seroconversion rates, meth use... and just disconnect... we are so disconnected from each other it is bound to hurt!)

Is anyone studying food and its relation to sexual dysfunction in the male anatomy? My diet is actually pretty... free of like McD's and fast food and even salt now that I have high blood pressure (a la my family history).

The way I know Viagra must be used scares me, personally. It can't be healthy. I remember watching the use of it on Big Love -- did you see that, do you watch it? It's interesting, promise.

I hate that sex is becoming... well, rather eat a hamburger in gay circles, too. One thing that may aid on my side of the waters is moralizing because, quiet as its kept, there is still a heavy push and need for homosexual males to be accepted by heterosexual anyones and "having sex" outside of some heteronormative limitation makes one a slut AND a bad homo who is thought to be dirty AND diseased.

... poor sex.

[sandra]

Here's the thing I find interesting about all of that: while men are choosing beer, etc. over sex, women are choosing sex over a lot of other things. The switch is interesting...and if I had more energy right now, I might even try to come up with a reason for it!

[Kath]

Here in Sydney,Australa, where the wacky abstinence propaganda is yet to gain a real hold, my housemate (a man in his 30s)has noticed the same phenomena: his younger male friends getting scripts for Viagra as a kind of 'insurance' before a big night out.

My understanding of drugs like Viagra is they won't magically give a man an erection if he's not stimulated/aroused in other ways. So there still needs to be the full 'eroticism' in an encounter in order for the drug to work - he won't just pop a pill & pop a boner. But maybe I'm wrong!

My personal experience has been that men in their mid to late 30s are a) the most accepting & skilled at using condoms as a matter of course and b) the most accepting of variable erections. I've often wondered if the two factors are linked, since I've had older & younger lovers who had real challenges with one or both aspects of our sexual interactions.

cheers, Kath

[C.S. Lewiston]

Quentin, you've spoken volumes. Kudos to ya. Fact is, even the most liberal among us carry a burden of fear and revulsion for same-sex love. Like dioxin, we've all been exposed to too much of it for too many years.

Sandra - where did you get your data on men vs women vs. beer? I'd like to invite one of those women you mentioned up for a drink!

Susie - It's easier, safer for the status quo (and more profitable for big pharma) to shove pills at adolescents (or adults) rather than deal proactively with someone's internal conflicts or (heaven forefend!) question the brave new world in which we live.

"Me" (mouseheart) - Great poetry!

Kit - Way to go. Doctors need to be disciplined sometimes, by their patients.

[Steve]

The ads with the men choosing burgers etc over women is, to me, simply reflective of the poor treatment men, especially white men, are given by the advertising media. Look at ads carefully. And each time you've seen an ad, ask yourself "Was anyone in this ad portrayed as a doof?" and just see how many times it is the white guy. I think you'll find it's almost every ad. Then compare the doofiness of the male with the characteristics of the female. I believe if you think carefully, you'll see that the message going out millions of times per day is one of male inferiority, stupidity, and failure to perform. Think about how such an ad would play if the character genders were reversed, and they would never cut it, because advertisers would never be able to make their sales if they ridicule women in the same way as they do men.

I believe these messages are imprinting on our youth. Plain and simple.

[Keith]

Can I have the taco AND the woman?

[A Reader]

If people would turn off the tv and learn to think for themselves ---instead--- of letting the ads tell them about the next big problem that faces them and of course the handy dandy easy access solution thats available.

Pharmas and their marketing come up with "new problems" that didn't exist before just so they can sell their prescriptions.

ED, gimme a break please.

And doctors are no better. I always wonder if I'm getting the "A' doctor, the "B" doctor, or something else on a visit. It almost makes sense that they wear their "NASCAR" coat which tells the patient they accept "gifts" from.

[mike]

The jig is up!

You cuaght us. We've been faking for centuries and this damned new generation of men isn't keeping up the old story.

Hey ladies, put our thinking caps on for a minute and follow this line of thought that just might be somewhere in the neighborhood of a close guess.

When a man first meets a woman he finds attractive, he wants to take action to encourage her to be attracted to him as well. He puts effort into getting her attention in a positive way. He'll buy you a drink, ask you to dance, (risk rejection so you won't have to) lots of kissing, back rubs, you name it. Seduction.

Fast forward three years. She says,"why don't you treat me like you did when we met?" I think alot of women consider it a man's job to seduce them. At the least to be ever ready.

I was totally amazed shortly after marrying my current and last wife that she actually seduced me. Not just the "hey I'm wearing lace" or grab and pull a couple of times, but actually worked on getting me aroused. Women can do it too. Most just don't know how or are lazy.

[kaye]

The mainstreaming of mainstream pornography, for one, has led to some unrealistic expectations. It's scripted, choreographed, edited, and performed by sexual athletes - it could be thought of as being like watching an NBA game that has been edited - even without editing and scripting, I know people who don't watch NBA games anymore because it's gotten too slick, too much about superstars for their taste - they'd rather watch a college game or go down to the court on the corner. With basketball, at least, you know that the guys down at the park playing a pickup game are having a good time even though they aren't Michael Jordan and never will be.

I agree that we don't have enough seduction in our lives, but I wouldn't go pointing fingers at a gender and getting accusatory. I've only read part of the introduction to Dita von Teese's book "The Art of the Teese", but I might wind up buying the book just for the introduction! Many of the models for seduction in our society are of seduction leading to betrayal - ugh. Sweet seduction, loving seduction, sexual pleasure that doesn't involve tab A, slot B, pump pump pump...we don't get much of that, do we. Seduction can be very frightening - it's intimate and vulnerable in ways that can make us very, very uncomfortable. A man can have his bare penis in my tooth-filled, powerfully hinged mouth and feel much more comfortable than if he is fully dressed, pinned down by my completely clothed body while I explore his face and throat using only my breath, inhaling and exhaling. To really seduce someone, you must get to know them and let them know you in return, all involved taking the risk of getting terribly hurt. It takes practice, a willingness to learn, and an open heart. A burger? A couple of dollars and a few minutes.

[Charles]

I don't think young males' loss of interest is all that complicated.

In the past 40 years or so, women have come to expect tha their mate will actually WORK at a relationship. They demand it...it is their right, so they've been told.

Some guys, indeed, a lot of guys, sadly, simply don't see enough bang for the buck...gotta put too damn much in compared to what he gets out of it.

Simple emotional economics.

[Steve]

Charles: AGREED.

[Timothy Stone]

Shoot, the other weekend I experimented with an herb and had a sensitive, yet macho, erection all weekend; my partner grew young.

I think that young men are rendered impotent by ideological factors, but I'm just an old hillbilly.

I'm in the old fart category, but I do agree that young men aren't as interested in pounding leather as I was at that age, and I live in a college town.

Sorry for the easy lob, but I think televison castrated our nation's men.

Thanks for your nice article. I'm old enough to get Viagra now. My doctor at school laughs when I visit him, saying, "Looks like You've been getting some love!"

Young men today lack self worth; none of the institutions tickle the dick.

The bottom line: people are square now, and don't care to cultivate sex.

I can't change ideological production, but I can go to bed and be young with my partner. Perhaps revolution occurs on the personal level.

Not a bad way of living. Spread the word.

[Susie Bright]

This story sure has generated a lot of comment. I put it up on my Huffington Post blog, and there were 50 responses in the first couple hours... I usually only get a handful.

But even more interesting to me were the comments at bbs for creative crafty women, called Glitter:

http://www.supernaturale.com/glitter/viewtopic.php?t=23959&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

They're a good companion for the discussion here!

BTW... I regret it didn't come across in my writing, but I am not anti-medicine on principle, or unsympathetic to the dilemma of clinical depression. I am hardly "Cruisian!"

What I'm critical of is how certain drugs are prescribed with abandon and little care, and how in particular, young people are treated with medications that depress their libido as if it didn't matter...

I'm also much more steamed on the topic of toxic food and air supply theories than anyone has entertained here. Of course I can't prove anythign about that.

People are still debating whether the cancer epidemic has anything to do the environment, so you can just imagine how invisible the scholarship is infertility and low libido.

It's just my hunch.

[another reader]

I find that I'm honestly kinda burned-out on getting turned on. Sex and sexiness is hard to escape from nowadays.

That said, when sex is excellent there's nothing better, but that's unfortunately rare. To make that happen on a regular basis both partners need to work fairly hard at it. When it's not excellent, it's oftentimes more fun to just masturbate, which certainly is a lot less wear-and-tear on the ol' emotions.

With so much good porn and good burgers instantly available, why bother with sex? I'm tired and it sounds suspiciously close to actual work.

[Felstorm]

++ But what I see in the erotic arena is mostly men who feel disconnected from their bodies, from the "dating game," and who feel terribly pessimistic that anything is going to change. ++

Here's the deal.

I'm one of those "burger-over-sex" types you describe.

Here's why.

Let us look at the sex scene, and how it's changed.

Ms. Bright is coming from the perspective of the 1960's Free Love era were all you had to worry about was getting a girl pregnant out of wedlock. THAT was the worst thing that could happen. And then came "the pill" and that changed EVERYTHING.

Now, in the era of HIV and Hepatitis C, getting a girl pregnant is the BEST thing that could "go wrong". The other options get you killed in a rather slow and horrid manner. And there is no telling who could have what. Men and women don't walk around with tally marks on their forehead anouncing how many partners they've been with so one can assess the risk you're taking.

That's not all, then there is the "dating game".

Oh, The Game.

If you play it like most men of my generation were taught it breaks down to the following sentence:

How deep does your bank account go?

And as a result of that golddigging is now a professional option for attractive women.

Sorry, if I wanted sex for money I'd go pick up a prostitute instead of paying for dinner, drinks, and whatever else is required to "seduce" a good looking women. At least then all the cards are on the table and you KNOW you're getting "banged for your buck". In fact there is a large shedding of the "traditional date" mentality. I certainly won't take a woman out to dinner unless I've already slept with her. It's just not economical to blow 100$ a weekend on a woman that you may or may not "score" with. Especially when you make less than 10$ an hour.

Expectations have been elevated all around.

Women want Jeff Stryker with Bill Gates' bankroll.

And men want the closest approximation to those cutesy celebrity tramps on the boob toob with an affinity for whatver particular fetish he desires. (I don't watch T.V. for this very reason)

Some of us have just come to the conclusion that sex is just and unneccesary risk and expense that will destroy our financial future, or life. And it's not because we're taking anti-depressants. I don't even need asprin, and according to my doctor, I'm as fit and sound as the next 27 year old male in his prime.

50% divorce rate.

I have better odds at playing black jack, and at least I can come out ahead gambling money.

Sex? 30 mins start to finish for 5 seconds of hormonal overload. And that takes perhaps... days, several dates, all adds up.

Oh and then if you have kids, kiss any chance of building wealth because a kid is going to eat any extra cash, literally. Welcome to the pit of despair that is 25% of this nation. Working poor, to feed kids from some girl you didn't really like but got pregnant because you were horny and wanted a lay.

Fuck. That.

And you are correct Ms. Bright.

The tables HAVE turned.

Women are the ones feeling lonely and orgasmless. The sexually aggressive men now have a high chance of also being physically aggressive, or emotionally abusive.

Poetic.

Nice guys finish last, in sex and The Game. But where others succeed at getting their rocks off, there are those of us that will simply put all that off, build something for ourselves and THEN engage in sexual antics when we're in our late thirties and early fourties and have more money than God.

I refuse to cave in.

This is for all you cute, attractive, lonely, horny women out there...

Find a good vibrator.

[Richard ChauDavis]

err, sex, okay I do erotic art, am male and monogamous anyway. Men an women seem to be wired the same with a lot of the same variety. It probably isn't drugs but a little more of the truth peeking out from the blanket. Drugs just put it back under...as usual

[Quentin Ergane]

C.S.,

... are you effing kidding me? Too much about same-sex sex?

Do I really need to point out the daily tidal wave of heterosexuality -- of different-sex sex? My life is littered with it and I ain't even TRYING to get it.

... Person PLUHEEZE!

Also, I bring my points to bear because it needs to be discussed, too. While the two communities are different, there are tons of overlap. When I was a young fag growing up in the world all single and fancy-free, I never met a dick that wouldn't rise to the occasion with no effort EXCEPT those old men I would trick with because... eh, I wanted a full experience.

Besides, luckily, I haven't been fooled by liberal "acceptance" in years. Most "yay gays!" liberals are "ate up" with unrecognized and unchallenged heterosexism anyway and still feel that homosexuals are lesser than them anyway which is why *I* wish homosexuals would effing quit trying to be equal and forge new ground...

which is why they and conservatives are scared of us in the first place....

If only you and other folks knew that even same-sex practitioners have heard too much about same-sex sex, too, and no one is actually trying to educate anyone about GOOD sex. Cuz lemme tell you, anyone can come to me and talk about sex and I will pass along what I know since, although I prefer same-sex sex, I have had different-sex sex and was like... hmmm... not so different. I was 20. My life was never the same afterwards.

[jenn]

Suzie, a book you might be interested in is "My Year of the Meats". It is fictional, but based on resesarch, and is about The meat industry, sexuality, and how we form ideas of the self versus the other (esp in terms of race and gender, but sexuality, family, and lifestyles as well)